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回應者: FrankYueh
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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有時候，廠商之間相互較勁，就好像候選人在互相抹黑一樣，見怪不怪。
And I also heard some words from youtube: "I dont care..."
And I also heard some words from youtube: "I dont care..."
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回應者: FrankYueh
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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引用一下，討論過的可以省下時間來。
Esmond Trials WOW! Scandium Frame! As the same material as KOXX SKY, but it is Lighter than the KOXX! Cool!
Kevin Liu koxx sky is not scandium. don't be fooled:)
October 12 at 7:24am · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Rockman also not!! factory guts said...
October 12 at 2:23pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Rockman also not!! factory guys said...
October 12 at 2:24pm · Like
Kevin Liu which factory is that? :)
October 12 at 2:29pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat The chain of making main fram from raw tube to completed finish anod.
October 12 at 2:31pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat The story alike ""made in singapore"" hehe...
October 12 at 2:40pm · Like
Kevin Liu The regular Rockman frames are not scandium, but the Kortz 2 and Bjorn frames are as far as I know. The riding characteristics of these frames are very different to the entry level Rockman frames. This is most apparent when you pay attention to the frame vibrations on the Kortz2.
It doesn't really matter though. The Bjorn Levin is a beautiful frame designed by a very capable rider. I'm very excited to get our shipment of these.
At least we are not shamelessly taking other company's design and implementing them on our own products =)
Wikipedia is a powerful tool. I suggest you use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_ethics
October 12 at 2:40pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat how ever honest is important in any business activity.
October 12 at 2:45pm · Like
Kevin Liu http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=37070&highlight=scandium
Here is Bjorn discussing the frame before the production. On post 17, he discusses the characteristics of the material, and compares it to the K-alone.
I have no cost effective way to verify the materials on the Scandium frames. However, based on the manner of business conduct I've seen from Worldcat, I'd probably give Rockman the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe Bjorn would like to join in and shed some light on this.
October 12 at 2:47pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat the frame is 100% made in taiwan that i think no any body knows truth then maker chain. I am not talk about material is dood or not but I am concern about honest of business. Any brand owner ahould not to cheat buyer.
October 12 at 3:26pm · Like
Kevin Liu I don't have any reason to doubt that the materials are bought and produced in Taiwan. They even mentioned that some frames have heat treatment done in Taiwan from time to time. If the frames are designed and welded in Singapore, then I can justify the label.
I'm not sure if the "Made in Singapore" label has any positive connotation anyways. If anything, it would be better to stamp "Made in Taiwan". In this case, the customer is not being cheated.
October 12 at 3:36pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Any way, at least cancel branding "made in singapore" on chain stay except materials discuession.
October 12 at 3:45pm · Like
Kevin Liu Maybe you should let them know personally. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.Might be a good change to showcase your new frames to them as well.
October 12 at 3:58pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Its not important to let them knows something else about me...they'll knows so much from spy, hehe...
Honest is morality, within or not personality that I have no commed.
October 12 at 4:15pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Once u get in taiwan, if u need to talk about my frame and fork parts etc. when we can make an appointment.
October 12 at 4:18pm · Like
Esmond Trials WOW! Scandium Frame! As the same material as KOXX SKY, but it is Lighter than the KOXX! Cool!
Kevin Liu koxx sky is not scandium. don't be fooled:)
October 12 at 7:24am · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Rockman also not!! factory guts said...
October 12 at 2:23pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Rockman also not!! factory guys said...
October 12 at 2:24pm · Like
Kevin Liu which factory is that? :)
October 12 at 2:29pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat The chain of making main fram from raw tube to completed finish anod.
October 12 at 2:31pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat The story alike ""made in singapore"" hehe...
October 12 at 2:40pm · Like
Kevin Liu The regular Rockman frames are not scandium, but the Kortz 2 and Bjorn frames are as far as I know. The riding characteristics of these frames are very different to the entry level Rockman frames. This is most apparent when you pay attention to the frame vibrations on the Kortz2.
It doesn't really matter though. The Bjorn Levin is a beautiful frame designed by a very capable rider. I'm very excited to get our shipment of these.
At least we are not shamelessly taking other company's design and implementing them on our own products =)
Wikipedia is a powerful tool. I suggest you use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_ethics
October 12 at 2:40pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat how ever honest is important in any business activity.
October 12 at 2:45pm · Like
Kevin Liu http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=37070&highlight=scandium
Here is Bjorn discussing the frame before the production. On post 17, he discusses the characteristics of the material, and compares it to the K-alone.
I have no cost effective way to verify the materials on the Scandium frames. However, based on the manner of business conduct I've seen from Worldcat, I'd probably give Rockman the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe Bjorn would like to join in and shed some light on this.
October 12 at 2:47pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat the frame is 100% made in taiwan that i think no any body knows truth then maker chain. I am not talk about material is dood or not but I am concern about honest of business. Any brand owner ahould not to cheat buyer.
October 12 at 3:26pm · Like
Kevin Liu I don't have any reason to doubt that the materials are bought and produced in Taiwan. They even mentioned that some frames have heat treatment done in Taiwan from time to time. If the frames are designed and welded in Singapore, then I can justify the label.
I'm not sure if the "Made in Singapore" label has any positive connotation anyways. If anything, it would be better to stamp "Made in Taiwan". In this case, the customer is not being cheated.
October 12 at 3:36pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Any way, at least cancel branding "made in singapore" on chain stay except materials discuession.
October 12 at 3:45pm · Like
Kevin Liu Maybe you should let them know personally. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.Might be a good change to showcase your new frames to them as well.
October 12 at 3:58pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Its not important to let them knows something else about me...they'll knows so much from spy, hehe...
Honest is morality, within or not personality that I have no commed.
October 12 at 4:15pm · Like
Taiwan Worldcat Once u get in taiwan, if u need to talk about my frame and fork parts etc. when we can make an appointment.
October 12 at 4:18pm · Like
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回應者: FrankYueh
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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Consumer do care is about "credit" and "responsibility".
Who care about that fooling in branding? Even faking as Taiwan is better than else, what a joke!
Why you always care about that? Do you afraid that people to ask you some issues about "credit" and "responsibility"? Someone being diffident?
Who care about that fooling in branding? Even faking as Taiwan is better than else, what a joke!
Why you always care about that? Do you afraid that people to ask you some issues about "credit" and "responsibility"? Someone being diffident?
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回應者: 老K
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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如果連最基本的""誠實""都做不到!!請問其他還能做什麼??你還相信嗎??不是個人介意而已,根本整個製造鏈都當作笑話看此事,只是本於尊重客戶所以根本沒人公開提過這件事,它是吃完便當後幫助消化的話題之一!!我算多嘴,其實也不關我事...但是聽說現在最新那台偷輕太超過已經賠了不少台!!其他商品責任,如果將來有任何問題品牌擁有者自該負責,除非想砸自己招牌,謝謝道德擁護者關心與督促。
世界貓不會砸招牌的....這是現階段的保證。
世界貓不會砸招牌的....這是現階段的保證。
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回應者: FrankYueh
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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"但是聽說現在最新那台偷輕太超過已經賠了不少台!!"
看來他們還滿守信用的，還願意賠給消費者 :)
亂標產地不誠實，但好像根本是芝麻小事，因為它只是"吃完便當後幫助消化的話題之一"，我滿認同的，因為我問過很多人，每個人都跟我說計較這個好無聊喔！
況且我有聽過更多也聽很久了它牌更誇張的事蹟，有人願意一起來分享嗎？
看來他們還滿守信用的，還願意賠給消費者 :)
亂標產地不誠實，但好像根本是芝麻小事，因為它只是"吃完便當後幫助消化的話題之一"，我滿認同的，因為我問過很多人，每個人都跟我說計較這個好無聊喔！
況且我有聽過更多也聽很久了它牌更誇張的事蹟，有人願意一起來分享嗎？
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回應者: FrankYueh
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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回應者: Kevin
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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Yea, some of the Kortz2 frames are cracking at the bb yoke. For the customers that didn't want to wait for a new yoke design, we've added a reinforcement gusset to the yoke. For the customers that don't mind waiting, we have a new design with a solid 3d yoke.
If the product has a design flaw, there's no point in replacing them with the same thing. Seeing as the worldcat frame uses the same yoke as the slate 2/kortz 2 (but without the bottom piece being enclosed), you're likely going to run into the same issue. The real test would be how you deal with it. From what I've heard in taiwan, you certainly don't buy worldcat products for their warranty.
If the product has a design flaw, there's no point in replacing them with the same thing. Seeing as the worldcat frame uses the same yoke as the slate 2/kortz 2 (but without the bottom piece being enclosed), you're likely going to run into the same issue. The real test would be how you deal with it. From what I've heard in taiwan, you certainly don't buy worldcat products for their warranty.
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回應者: 老K
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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嘿嘿,說得就像是品牌主導者...可惜只知其一不知其二,且讓我說分明...我不是早說過了嗎??我住台灣,去工廠就像去我家廚房一樣容易!!說到這YORK...就是後下叉和五通管焊接在一起那塊。本來一點事都沒有,好用得很,也沒斷過!!哪知...貪心不足,總要付出代價,洗孔嫌不夠輕,連肋排都拿掉!!啊是有再輕多少??結果付出慘痛的代價!!其實工廠早勸諫過...只是堅持之下只好尊重客戶,最後結果自負囉!!台灣話說""自己苟咕賽""賺錢不易啊!!多賠幾次前面賺的都白賺了，身為同行不免婉惜。
世界貓車架當然希望造福台灣車友,還沒上市就被說得一文不值,我不胖但是肚子可是大得很!!將來一台和妹得一恩興家婆的車架在台灣出貨只要一半價錢,說不定還不到一半價!!如果驚世悸俗公正不二的台灣品牌監督者能夠多多捧場,秉持相同標準公正發言,世界貓品牌擁有者感謝台灣人使用都來不及怎麼可能會沒有售後服務!!何況我從不自作主張,完全尊重工廠專業人士建議,真壞了工廠也會理我的,有人和我一起擔更沒有不賠的道理!!
據傳...當初石頭在星是買不到的,因為要塑造高級形象,真是看輕了自己同胞...這點熱愛台灣的世界貓是做不出來滴!!
世界貓車架當然希望造福台灣車友,還沒上市就被說得一文不值,我不胖但是肚子可是大得很!!將來一台和妹得一恩興家婆的車架在台灣出貨只要一半價錢,說不定還不到一半價!!如果驚世悸俗公正不二的台灣品牌監督者能夠多多捧場,秉持相同標準公正發言,世界貓品牌擁有者感謝台灣人使用都來不及怎麼可能會沒有售後服務!!何況我從不自作主張,完全尊重工廠專業人士建議,真壞了工廠也會理我的,有人和我一起擔更沒有不賠的道理!!
據傳...當初石頭在星是買不到的,因為要塑造高級形象,真是看輕了自己同胞...這點熱愛台灣的世界貓是做不出來滴!!
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回應者: 老K
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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哎呦!!真歹勢...為了不顯老,只好用點自創的網路語言...不然受過公文教育的中文敘述,應該就容易懂了。
哪裡不懂??中文的可以問我...如果是語意不清難懂...可能就要問x了。
哪裡不懂??中文的可以問我...如果是語意不清難懂...可能就要問x了。
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回應者: FrankYueh
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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如果過去的記錄很難讓人認同，那根本不會有人再相信它的『保證』。
現階段保證？那過去的保證都不算保證了？那誰還會相信這些『大話』。
笑話。ROCKMAN的工廠不願意幫他擔，他卻擔下來了，你願意嗎？
今天你的保證還不是建立在別人工廠的保證下，光這一點你對ROCKMAN根本站不住腳。
現階段保證？那過去的保證都不算保證了？那誰還會相信這些『大話』。
笑話。ROCKMAN的工廠不願意幫他擔，他卻擔下來了，你願意嗎？
今天你的保證還不是建立在別人工廠的保證下，光這一點你對ROCKMAN根本站不住腳。
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回應者: FrankYueh
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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『最佳商業道德獎』這主題的內容，竟然是WORLDCAT老闆臭罵ROCKMAN品牌標地問題，真是諷刺。
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回應者: benben
回應時間: 2010/10/27
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『最佳商業道德獎』入圍標準首先心腸要黑,臉皮要厚,打不還手,罵不動怒!引用 FrankYueh 的文章-『最佳商業道德獎』這主題的內容，竟然是WORLDCAT老闆臭罵ROCKMAN品牌標地問題，真是諷刺。
看來貓老闆穩拿首獎,記得要發表得獎感言喔!