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Replier: Kevin
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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I've already done the research. Here's a table of the different materials for cylinder seals and how they react to the fluid. Looking at the results, water has the most consistent performance.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Aixc4R8GFS2ydE9fWEtkQ3hlUFd6NXlRa0Q5T2NPR2c&hl=en&output=html
There is another modification you should do to your hs-33, that will help it perform a little better, and last longer as well.
You will notice that the material that typically covers the TPA has been removed. We've had a lot of cases where the cylinder in the lever gets deformed (we verify with a caliper) due to the lever blade pressing against the removed area. It can also cause cracks in the lever body.
Whether your lever is bled with water or mineral oil, it still requires regular servicing. I've tried a lot brakes bled with oil that the rider claims to be functioning correctly, but it clearly is not. The only difference is that if you don't service a brake with oil, the brake only feels terrible and sluggish. Since the brake never worked that well with oil in the first place, riders don't notice.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Aixc4R8GFS2ydE9fWEtkQ3hlUFd6NXlRa0Q5T2NPR2c&hl=en&output=html
There is another modification you should do to your hs-33, that will help it perform a little better, and last longer as well.
You will notice that the material that typically covers the TPA has been removed. We've had a lot of cases where the cylinder in the lever gets deformed (we verify with a caliper) due to the lever blade pressing against the removed area. It can also cause cracks in the lever body.
Whether your lever is bled with water or mineral oil, it still requires regular servicing. I've tried a lot brakes bled with oil that the rider claims to be functioning correctly, but it clearly is not. The only difference is that if you don't service a brake with oil, the brake only feels terrible and sluggish. Since the brake never worked that well with oil in the first place, riders don't notice.
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Replier: Kevin
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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And maybe if the original poster stopped avoiding me actually came out on a ride, he can see for himself.
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Replier: Twins...
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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我的是左後短柄....sorry..Quote 尿尿小P article-
請問一下您壞掉的把手是長柄還是短柄的..???
我的右後煞是短柄 , 想找長柄來換說...
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Replier: 老K
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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終於最後還是有人講到重點;灌不灌水個人自由;沒有對錯!!我個人也沒有評論,這必須強調。
灌水後問題比較多,至少我遇到的是這樣,所以只是發文提醒已經灌水的要多注意保養,鼓勵別人灌水的也該多提醒別人灌水後該怎麼保養;就此而已...並沒有別的意思!!想誤會的人千萬別誤會了!!
Magura的5年不漏油保證是他的招牌;百年大廠大概也不想""砸""自己招牌吧!!
灌水後問題比較多,至少我遇到的是這樣,所以只是發文提醒已經灌水的要多注意保養,鼓勵別人灌水的也該多提醒別人灌水後該怎麼保養;就此而已...並沒有別的意思!!想誤會的人千萬別誤會了!!
Magura的5年不漏油保證是他的招牌;百年大廠大概也不想""砸""自己招牌吧!!
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Replier: jo
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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水是很其妙的物質萬物生命都由他而起
金屬被油覆蓋時因為阻隔空氣所以有抗氧化作用
但水附著金屬上卻是有助氧化作用
這種氧化可能是有微生物孳生與金屬表面被侵蝕
水與金屬接觸一段時間後可能讓金屬表面產生粗糙的狀態
這種氧化未必能用肉眼觀察到
所以不是看到有鏽斑才叫生鏽
由於hs33油封使用橡膠
在金屬表面變粗糙時會增加的摩擦係數
摩擦係數同時會使橡膠更容易變型與磨損
加上橡膠本身會有膨脹特性
久而久之自然就可能影響煞車效果
所以當煞車很久沒用時容易發生橡膠油封膨脹變形被卡住
若用油的情況下只要多壓幾下煞車因為油本身具有潤滑油封的作用
自然就能改善卡住的問題
但用水因為摩擦係數大可能衍伸出其他故障
譬如讓油封磨損或扭曲等
我猜水箱精(冷卻劑/防凍劑)也許是最接近水的替代方案
因為他跟油一樣附著金屬表面有抗氧化(防止生鏽)的功效
另外潤滑係數也比水好很多(減低油封摩擦損耗)
金屬被油覆蓋時因為阻隔空氣所以有抗氧化作用
但水附著金屬上卻是有助氧化作用
這種氧化可能是有微生物孳生與金屬表面被侵蝕
水與金屬接觸一段時間後可能讓金屬表面產生粗糙的狀態
這種氧化未必能用肉眼觀察到
所以不是看到有鏽斑才叫生鏽
由於hs33油封使用橡膠
在金屬表面變粗糙時會增加的摩擦係數
摩擦係數同時會使橡膠更容易變型與磨損
加上橡膠本身會有膨脹特性
久而久之自然就可能影響煞車效果
所以當煞車很久沒用時容易發生橡膠油封膨脹變形被卡住
若用油的情況下只要多壓幾下煞車因為油本身具有潤滑油封的作用
自然就能改善卡住的問題
但用水因為摩擦係數大可能衍伸出其他故障
譬如讓油封磨損或扭曲等
我猜水箱精(冷卻劑/防凍劑)也許是最接近水的替代方案
因為他跟油一樣附著金屬表面有抗氧化(防止生鏽)的功效
另外潤滑係數也比水好很多(減低油封摩擦損耗)
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Replier: 老K
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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嘿嘿嘿!!!人才濟濟...能有此分析;不知哪裡高就??應該轉行做科學家或是直接進入單車產業做研發。
重點除了""油封""以外;請將活塞,油缸等等材質因素考慮進去,因為不只油封接觸到液壓液而已!!
繼續繼續...真理不辯不明;這是很正面的事,但願本板多朝向正面發展。
重點除了""油封""以外;請將活塞,油缸等等材質因素考慮進去,因為不只油封接觸到液壓液而已!!
繼續繼續...真理不辯不明;這是很正面的事,但願本板多朝向正面發展。
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Replier: Kevin
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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we can talk about this at the bike show.
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Replier: mark
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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MAGURA 煞車油使用前後對照圖, 容器是同一個玻璃杯, 相機設定及角度都一樣.
純淨的MAGURA專用煞車油ROYAL BLOOD.
使用過的ROYAL BLOOD.
將使用過的煞車油倒掉時底部的殘渣.
純淨的MAGURA專用煞車油ROYAL BLOOD.
使用過的ROYAL BLOOD.
將使用過的煞車油倒掉時底部的殘渣.
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Replier: 聖樺
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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第三張照片好像有眼珠子內
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Replier: FrankYueh
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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Replier: 老K
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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如果是大K與小K就免了;想談找Magura的德國佬實際一點;不過她們的meeting是要先約的...Quote Kevin article-we can talk about this at the bike show.
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Replier: 老K
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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看完灌水篇,精確掌握要點,給個讚...雖然我還是不想灌水!!有點需要提醒,大多數人可能怕麻煩;所以忽略了要保養;但是什麼是保養呢??什麼是大保養??可能要清楚說明一下...
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Replier: FrankYueh
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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Quote 老K article-看完灌水篇,精確掌握要點,給個讚...雖然我還是不想灌水!!有點需要提醒,大多數人可能怕麻煩;所以忽略了要保養;但...
看上面英文寫，一個月重灌一次，六個月要做一次這個教學完整的保養。我沒看錯的話，教學裡面有教你把活塞拿出來清理的步驟，就是那個。所以裡面寫的是，一個月只是重灌，六個月才要做完整的。所以應該是前面那一句中文可以改一下。
不過還是提醒，希望你也能分享一些對大家有用的"純"教學分享文章，免得每次猜燈迷，都搞的深怕自己或別人誤會來誤會去。
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Replier: Kevin
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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http://www.phatworks.co.uk/phatphluid.html
we've had some good results using this for the winter seasons. It has very close viscosity to water, and doesn't freeze. It also has some lubricating features.
If you're not open to trying new things to improve the performance of the bike for trials, you probably should look at giving up your bike brand. I'll nominate frank as someone who is adequate for taking over :)
Otherwise you might as well release something like this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Ud4HP59bY Like(2)+ expand
Enjoy your day!
we've had some good results using this for the winter seasons. It has very close viscosity to water, and doesn't freeze. It also has some lubricating features.
If you're not open to trying new things to improve the performance of the bike for trials, you probably should look at giving up your bike brand. I'll nominate frank as someone who is adequate for taking over :)
Otherwise you might as well release something like this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Ud4HP59bY Like(2)+ expand
Enjoy your day!
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Replier: mark
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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I like the music, I like thunder road bike, I want to buy one.
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Replier: 老K
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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事出必有因;謝謝收看!!目的已達到,燈會結束,哇哈哈....
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Replier: FrankYueh
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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其實只是嘗試不同的東西，來用以改進攀岩車的性能，本身就沒什麼不對的呀！
若能能互相討論交流自己的解決辦法和處理經驗，何樂而不為。然而，從這篇原PO的文章看來，是事出必有因，但是只講事不講因，恐怕不只是說不過去，還造成誤會，喝喝。
若能能互相討論交流自己的解決辦法和處理經驗，何樂而不為。然而，從這篇原PO的文章看來，是事出必有因，但是只講事不講因，恐怕不只是說不過去，還造成誤會，喝喝。
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Replier: FrankYueh
Reply Time: 2011/03/08
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Quote 小魚 article-謎底是啥？
應該是MARK原廠暇疵問題，還有Twins摔車後的HS33問題。
Quote -前天牽著好久沒騎的小攀,想要慢慢恢復以往騎車的車感,但才剛開始練習就往後種重摔ㄌ一下!
還好有反應過來,沒多大問題,但我發現33的行程明顯變短!且有一壓就到底的感覺!於是就開始拆解及重灌水!
但還是沒用!於是就只好求助會長!發現活塞真的卡在一半，無法回到原位!原來是活塞變形ㄌ!
本想說已經沒救ㄌ!但突然想到我有一隻白吃到被我鎖斷的33把手,就把新活塞換過來,就okㄌ!
隨後就趕緊把水排除掉.今天就馬上去買ㄌ油!準備過兩天等水乾一點時重新灌油,畢竟33一ㄍ好貴!
再用水怕會遇到相同的問題!但....我今天買的是原廠油.....真不知要用什ㄇ才好???
卡住你要先用另一個手把油管相接，就可以將推器推出來，要不然也可以用鉗子把它抽出來。抽出來後清潔和潤滑，可以先試試看。
我之前一款用了4年的舊hs33手把，在我灌水後的一年它壓到底就會卡住，後來也是潤滑和清潔就修好，持續又用到我前陣子換新Hs33，它還是好的。
我個人使用經驗，是最容易卡住的是在推器，反而不是手把。每次下雨天騎車，進了一些細沙塵後，就更為明顯。
我個人有空的話，會拿防凍劑來試試看，畢竟那東西本來就是給液壓管線用的東西，有些許保護作用或許有些用處。如果有什麼結果我會分享給大家看看。 :)
畢竟我以前灌水後發生的卡住問題都有分享給大家參考過，應該不至於只跟大家說他的好處而以。應該有人還記得我用沙拉油潤滑的事情吧！話說還滿好笑的。